Wednesday, April 1, 2009

A SOLID Audio Rant

There are two podcasts I am listening to on a more or less regular basis: Scott Hanselman's Hanselminutes and the StackOverflow Podcast with Joel Spolsky and Jeff Atwood.

Besides all the most of the time interesting stuff both of the podcasts circumvent, there has been an interesting mixup between those podcasts (see detailed chronology below).

It all started when Scott Hanselman had a talk with Robert C. Martin (aka "Uncle Bob") about the SOLID principles in Hanselminute Show #145.

Two weeks later, Joel Spolsky refered to that Hanselminute episode including some personally offending comments towards Mr. Martin (StackOverflow Podcast episode 38). In short, he said something similiar to "I have the feeling that people that state such principles cannot have written much code.". Hard stuff.

After that episode the forum for the StackOverflow Podcasts were flooded with comments regarding principles in software engineering in common and specially the SOLID principles.
That wind in the community brought Jeff and Joel to invite Mr. Martin for a follow up episode of their StackOverflow Podcast. In Episode #41 Mr. Martin and the hosts had a rather friendly talk about the arguments pro and con principles, TDD (test driven development) and other software related topics.
Concluding that series, Scott Hanselman again had a talk to Mr. Martin in Hanselminute Show #145 where they resumed about the discussions of the weeks passed.

I can recommend listening to those podcasts on that topic since four guys, each with a strong opinion about their profession, discuss topics of the software engineering.

The Chronology

Remark: The citations are copy pasted from the respective podcast's websites.

The Initial Interview

2009-Jan-05: Hanselminutes Show #145
Scott sits down with Robert C. Martin as Uncle Bob helps Scott understand the SOLID Principles of Object Oriented Design.

The Rant

2009-Jan-20: StackOverflow Episode 38
Joel and Jeff discuss YSlow optimizations for large websites, the value of unit testing, and the hidden pitfalls of asking questions to programmers.
If you want to go directly to the topic, you can skip the first 45 minutes.
Listening to that podcast, one gets the feeling that Spolsky intentionally is misinterpreting the SOLID principles as discussed in Hanselminute #145. The examples he gives are definitely not what Mr. Martin meant it to be and are really horrible. Listen yourself!

The Friendly Discussion (After Apology)

2009-Feb-11: StackOverflow Episode 41
Joel and Jeff sit down with Robert Martin aka "Uncle Bob", and discuss software quality, the value of software engineering principles, and test-driven development.

The resumee

2009-Feb-18: Hanselminutes Show #150
Uncle Bob Martin responds to the hullabaloo around the SOLID principles from Show 145, his time on the Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky StackOverflow podcast, and offers his reasoned response. Is it time for a Software Apprenticeship Program? Other possible titles for this show: "He's back and he's pissed." "Bob's your Uncle." "Joel Who?" "SOLID State" "I got your tests right here!" "Smack Overflow" "Pay Attention This Time: Bob Martin on SOLID" (No, Bob's not pissed. We're just having a laugh.)

1 comment:

  1. Just found an interesting site regarding that discussion. See my seperate post on that: